Sam Lessin on Artificial Intelligence

Essays

From the Podcast

Well, we just said that's all that matters. That's the only thing that matters for OpenClaw. All that matters is trust and security.

— Sam Lessin, More or Less Ep 140

But that I'll just push you on this. You're reporting like over the last several months, your team's reporting would, it would have to, something would have to change in a dramatic fashion for Claude to not cross open AI in the next few months.

— Sam Lessin, More or Less Ep 140

I don't know, having seen the information is reporting, seems like quite likely that two months from now, the story is going to be that Claude is actually making way more money than OpenAI. And I that's going to be a big blow to their narrative.

— Sam Lessin, More or Less Ep 140

I mean, I did it, but I think for me, it's like the story of open AI is like the business model go round and round of like, what did it, how they're going to make money.

— Sam Lessin, More or Less Ep 140

Yes, think that that's trust is the right word, which is if you said to me, the reason open claw is what everyone uses is because everyone else is worried that nano claw or the thousand other things that are exactly the same might steal their data. And this one, everyone trusts. That's a, think a valid answer, which is like, you're pumping everything through it, then like all that matters is security and trust.

— Sam Lessin, More or Less Ep 140

I'm just saying that it makes sense that OpenClaw would, I mean, again, that's not to criticize OpenClaw. Like I'm pro OpenClaw. I'm just saying like obviously Claude code, which does Claude directly. I mean, the fact that it's like almost what, like 10 percent or actually more than 10 percent of OpenClaw, given how hard it is to make Claude code talk to OpenRouter is like kind of the opposite. I think it shows the opposite story.

— Sam Lessin, More or Less Ep 140

Well, but wait a minute. I am with you, but that's a little unfair on the Claude code side because Claude codes tokens are all going through Claude, right? Like, whereas I don't even know how you make, I mean, guess you could make Claude code talk to open router, but that's quite a leap, right? Like I get it, but like, this is literally open Claude.

— Sam Lessin, More or Less Ep 140

Sure. Which in fairness, Claude does all this as well. The only thing it doesn't do is let you switch which backend you're using. Right. like, so no, I get it. just like, when you look at something like NanoClaw, right. Like, which is a separate project. Like, I just wonder how it evolves, right? Cause like, to me it's like, it's kind of like imagine a future, imagine you had OS's, but it was unbelievably once shown what to do, easy to make your own OS. Like how does that ecosystem work? You know, is like almost the question.

— Sam Lessin, More or Less Ep 140

I understand why Nvidia loves it because as long as it's inference, somehow they're getting paid, right? So like six levels down, who cares what model you're running or how you're arbing it or whatever.

— Sam Lessin, More or Less Ep 140

But just to push you, and again, this isn't a criticism, I'm just trying to understand how you think about it, is like, I'm just trying to, I'm not criticizing. actually like, I just like, I'm trying to think about how you intellectualize it to some degree. Is like, I can obviously like publish on GitHub repo, like a bunch of text files, right? And suck it into OpenClaw or Claude or whatever. It's like very easy. Like there's no, there's very little to it. OpenClaw will run.

— Sam Lessin, More or Less Ep 140

Dave, can you, can you back up and describe like, what's the software? And this is a question I ask is like, what, what is really open-claw? to me, again, when you think of the high level, it's persistence and identity on some level, right. but it doesn't, unlike a Linux server, like it's, it's not like a heavy piece of software. So when you think about like the few, how you define even the guardrails of like what open-claw is and what Matt, like what. What is it? mean, you know, it kind of blew up because it had some persistent memory. and like, did it, I mean, it's very useful and then like bridge to telegram. And so it made it really easy for less technical people to like consistently interact and build skills. Like that was kind of like, but like, there's not a lot of like complexity to that. And that's not necessarily a criticism. I'm just trying to understand, like, when you really got to the heart of it, what is this thing other than like kind of a shim?

— Sam Lessin, More or Less Ep 140

You can make that happen. Like you make you a little dumber. No, it's the opposite. Your press tries to a very high altitude. So make you slightly stupider and remove some air and then you get better work done. But, you think everything's a good idea because you're a loopy, right? Like, but yeah, I think the, I think you could sell the shit out of it.

— Sam Lessin, More or Less Ep 140

the co-working space of the future. You could even block it on your calendar. You could buy it as like, I'm flying to Tokyo and that's like a certain number of hours or I'm flying to like, yeah, you're like, I bought a Tokyo ticket, you know, like.

— Sam Lessin, More or Less Ep 140

No, can go bathroom. You can go to the bathroom, but it's better. Think about it. If you're on an airplane, it's the only time that you're allowed even still to set like, I'm not available because I'm flying, even though you are available. Right. And then you can just be left alone. It can be like 2 PM and you can watch a movie. can vibe code. You have someone bring you food and it's incredibly space efficient and you can have super fast wifi. like to me, the whole, innovation is airplanes that don't go anywhere. Right. Is it going to be like the

— Sam Lessin, More or Less Ep 140

Well, but Dave, no, no, Dave, this is an old idea that I will credit Ricky Van Veen and I were like co-developing on a walk once, which is here's the idea is co-working spaces that are airplane fuselages that don't go anywhere. Right? So you buy a ticket and like, it's a super dense thing. Like think about it. You can fit so many people in a small space. You have a stewardess to serve your lunch. You just sit in the chair on your calendar. says you're in the air.

— Sam Lessin, More or Less Ep 140

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